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PART 1 Heading: ‘Pastor’ Russell Under Direct Court Examination
Subheading: Interesting Court
Examination of ‘Pastor’ Russell, His Religious Propaganda As Well As His
Business Enterprises.
From Spotlight on Russellism, Volume
1, number 1, pages 2 and 7. Punctuation and capitalization as per the Sidersky
transcript.
Q = Attorney
Staunton
A = Charles
Taze Russell
March 17th, 1913.
(continuation of Russell vs. Ross)
Mr. Washington:-
The
evidence for the Crown is closed, Your Worship.
Mr. Staunton:-
I
just want to submit that they have made no case. Of course I will call the
prosecutor, Mr. Russell.
Charles T. Russell.
Sworn.
Direct examination by Mr. Staunton.
Q. Now
your name is Charles T. Russell?
A. It
is.
Q. You
are prosecutor in this case?
A. I
didn’t understand so.
Q. Well,
are you prosecutor?
A. I
am with the Crown.
Q Are
you private prosecutor? Let’s not start –
A. I
didn’t know that I was, sir.
Q. You
didn’t lay this information or cause it to be laid?
A.
I understand that the Crown –
Q. Will
you answer my question. Did you lay an information or cause it to be laid?
A. I
will have to ask my Counsel how it is.
Mr. Washington:-
The information is there, Mr. Russell,
you can look at it and see if it is yours.
Information produced:
Witness:-
I remember, sir, yes, I made this,
yes, sir.
Q. Why
did you hesitate to answer that?
A.
Because I thought it was the Crown that was prosecutor in this case, and I was
a witness.
Q. I
asked you if you laid the information – You are an intelligent man – did you
swear to it?
A. Yes,
to this paper.
Q. Therefore
you are the private prosecutor?
A. Whatever
you say.
Q. Now
were you at one time in the shirt business in Allegheny, Pennsylvania?
A. I
was in the Gent’s furnishing business.
Q. Then
you were selling shirts in Allegheny, Pennsylvania at one time?
A. I
had stores in Allegheny. I don’t know that I sold many shirts myself.
Q. Do
you understand the question, Mr. Russell?
A. I
have answered it.
Q. Did
you sell shirts in Allegheny!
A. I
can’t say that I sold shirts. I have plenty –
Q. You
swear you can’t tell me whether you sold any shirts or not?
A. I
don’t know whether I ever sold a shirt ever in my life.
Q. Had
you any stores there?
A. Yes
Q. Did
you keep shirts for sale?
A. Shirts
for sale.
Q. You don’t know whether you sold any or not?
A. I
couldn’t say whether I did.
Q. How
many years did you keep the business?
A. Well,
I had, I presume ten years.
Q. How
many stores did you have?
A. I
had different stores at different times.
Q. How
many did you have at one time?
A. Five,
I think at one time.
Q. Did
you sell them all out?
A. I
sold them all out.
Q. Did you inherit your business from your father?
A. No.
Q. Did
you build up the business for yourself?
A. Yes.
Q. Your
Father wasn’t in that business?
A. My
Father was partner in one of those stores.
Q. Your
father was partner in the business?
A. One
of the businesses.
Q. Did
you lecture on religious subjects at the time you were in the Gent’s Furnishing
business?
A. I did.
Q. When
did you quit the Gent’s Furnishing business?
A. I
have no matter to refresh my memory.
Q. About
what year?
A. Rough
guess there.
Q. Make
it as rough as you like, but give it to
me.
A. About
1885.
Q. Wasn’t
before ‘85?
A. I
couldn’t say.
Q. Did
you establish the Watch Tower immediately after you quit that business?
A. No,
sir.
Q. How
many years after?
A. No, sir, I established the Watch Tower
just before I quit the business.
Q. Now
did anybody in those days ever call you the “Crank preacher”?
A. They
may have done so. I never heard.
Q. You
don’t know that you ever heard that, did you ever see it in print?
A. I
don’t remember that I ever did.
Q. Did
you ever hear that in those days you were called “The crank preacher”?
A. I
don’t remember it.
Q. You
swear you don’t remember it?
A. Certainly
swearing all the time.
Q. You
may have been for aught you know?
A. Why,
of course, Mr. Ross says he knows.
Q. Never
mind Mr. Ross. I’m asking you.
A. Well,
I have answered it. I wouldn’t change it any if you ask me this over again.
Q. Did
you ever give out that you were “Some Great One?”
A. No
Sir.
Q. Never
did it?
A. No
Sir.
Q. You
were never the servant, never prophesied no time that you were the servant
mentioned in the 24th St. Matthew?
A. I
never did, but some of my friends suggested that they believed that the
Scripture in Matthew 24-26 was applicable to myself. I have never said it was,
and I have never said it was not. I may have merely said I did not know whether
it was or not.
Q. Did
you ever attend a High School of learning, or, perhaps, you might tell me what
schools of learning you did attend?
A. I
attended various schools, none were termed High Schools of learning.
Q. What
schools did you attend?
A. Well
as far as theology is concerned –
Q. I
am not asking you about theology.
A. I
had a great deal of education from private tutors.
Q. What
schools did you attend?
A. Not
very many.
Q. What
school?
A. Ordinary
public school.
Q. At
what age did you leave school?
A. That
is more than I know.
Q. Were
you ten, fifteen, or twenty years old?
A. If
you know, you know more than I do.
Q. You
don’t know how long you were at school?
A. No.
Q. Were
you ever at school?
A. Yes.
Q. Are
you clear on that?
A. Yes.
Q. Can
you tell me how many years you attended school?
A. No.
Q. Did
you attend two years?
A. I
suppose so.
Q. You
don’t know?
A. Yes,
I’m sure more than that.
Q. Did
you attend three years?
A. I
suppose –
Q. You
don’t know, tho’?
A. I
suppose so.
Q. Well,
but you don’t know.
A. I
can’t say where those were.
Q. You
attend three years in total time at school?
A. Yes
more than three years.
Q. Did
you attend four years?
A. I
suppose five or six or seven years.
Q. I
asked you how many years you attended school?
A. Probably
seven years.
Q. Now,
where did you attend school?
A. In
Allegheny, Pittsburgh, and Philadelphia.
Q. Now,
do you know, or are you learned in Latin?
A. Not
as much as I would like to be.
Q. Can
you read anything in Latin?
A. I
can read a few sentences, I can’t read Latin –
Q. You
did not profess to read anything in Latin outside?
A. No.
Q. You
don’t profess then to be schooled in the Latin language?
A. No
sir.
Q. Or
in Greek?
A. No
sir.
Q. Do
you know the Greek alphabet?
A. Oh
yes.
Q. Can
you tell me the correct letters if you see them?
A. Some
of them, I might make a mistake on some of them.
Q. Could
you tell me the names of those on top of the page, page 447 that I have got
here?
A. Well,
I don’t know that I would be able to.
Q. You
can’t tell what those letters are, look at them, and see if you know?
A. My
way - ?
Q. Are
you familiar with the Greek language?
A. No.
Q. Did
you ever take a course in theology?
A. Taking
courses in theology all the time.
Q. Did
you ever take a course in theology at a University, or at a school of any kind?
A. No
– glad I didn’t.
Q. Did
you ever take one in philosophy?
A. No.
(To be continued)
Issues 2-5 are not extant. However, issue 6 is,
and provides more of the transcript.
PART TWO Heading: ‘Pastor’ Russell Under
Direct Court Examination
Subheading: Interesting Court Examination
of ‘Pastor’ Russell, His Religious Propaganda As Well As His Business
Enterprises.
From Spotlight on Russellism, Volume
1, number 6, pages 2 and 7. Punctuation and capitalization as per the Sidersky
transcript.
Q = Attorney
Staunton
A = Charles
Taze Russell
(continuation)
Q. Same
man?
A. Yes.
Q Is
that an additional sum of money?
A I
don’t know but it is.
Q Did
you get the whole of this money from him at one time?
A. No
Sir, he sent it at different times.
Q. Did
he strip his family of all their possessions to do that?
A. No,
he came to me and said, “I’ve just received a legacy from an Uncle in Ireland”
– I think it was his Uncle – “of Twenty Thousand Dollars, and I want to give
that all to this work.” I said, “Brother Hay, my advice to you is before you
tender it, because if you do tender it, as President of the Society, my advice
to you in advance is not to do it. Don’t give more than half, keep one half for
some other reason.” He said he would take my advice and gave Ten Thousand
Dollars, and he never finished giving the Ten. Since that he developed, what
they claim, was tumor on the brain.
Q. Is
he in the lunatic asylum now?
A. Yes.
Q. Who
supports him?
A. Well,
I think we became.
Q. Who
pays the money?
A. The
Society.
Q. Does
the Society pay it?
A. Yes.
Q. Now
I am told that it is his Uncle in the old country that does that.
A. Not
as I know, we done it right along.
Q. How
much have you been paying?
A. I
don’t know – several years.
Q. You
are paying it actually from time to time?
A. I
would not know, the Treasurer would know that. I know we did pay it – never
declined to pay it, I suppose being paid for.
Q. What
is the International Bible Students Association?
A. The
International Bible Students Association is an Association which got its
charter in Great Britain. It is international in its scope and work.
Q. Who
are members of the Association?
A. Anybody
who desires to be a member,
Q. Well,
how many are there?
A. Well,
we don’t come down to the matter in the way you have – judge from membership.
Q. How
many are there active members of the Association?
A. Well,
I can hardly say.
Q. Are
there two?
A. I
suppose there are one hundred thousand anyway.
Q. That
are living, where do they live, in America?
A. All
over the earth.
Q. Are
they, do they call them persons, who are members of this Society, who are your
followers?
A. No
Sir, we told them not to follow me but the Lord.
Q. Are
they all your disciples then, if you call?
A. I
hope they are disciples of Christ.
Q. Then
people contribute to your work?
A. Most
of them never contribute a cent.
Q. What
do you call them, again?
A. Bible
Students.
Q. International
– what?
A. Bible
Students Association.
Q. They
are made of all creeds of society?
A. All
creeds of society.
Q. Men
who are not students in it?
A. Oh
yes, all students.
Q. They
study the Bible, that is what you mean?
A. Yes.
Q. Men
who are not educated?
A. Some
educated, and some who are not educated, some of them ministers, some of them
doctors and some of them lawyers.
Q. Where
did you get the charter from, the government of England?
A. Yes.
Q. Do
you know under what law it is?
A. No.
Q. Is
it under the Companys Act in England, do you know that?
A. I
am unable to say.
Q. There
is a charter issue?
A. Yes.
Q. Now
you spoke this morning of the family, what is the family you spoke about?
A. Well
the family I spoke about was when Mrs. Russell was with me.
Q. No,
no, but now, what does it consist of?
A. The
family now then –
Q. Have
you a family now?
A. Yes
Sir, we call it a family.
Q. What
is the family?
A. All
those in the Brooklyn hall we call in a general way the family.
Q. Do
they all live in the one house?
A. We
have a house, I suppose, of about fifty rooms.
Q. What
do you call it?
A. What
do we call it – “Bethel,” house of God.
Q. And
do you all live there?
A. They
live there.
Q. Are
they married and unmarried?
A. Married
and unmarried.
Q. Men
and women?
A. Yes.
Q. Numbering,
about how many?
A. About
one hundred.
Q. Now,
how are the expenses of that institution paid of the “Bethel”?
A. The
expenses are all paid by the People’s Pulpit Association.
Q. Now,
what is the People’s Pulpit Association?
A. The
People’s Pulpit Association.
Q. There
are so many of these associations that I get mixed up.
A. Get
mixed up?
Q. Yes.
Q. What
is the People’s Pulpit Association?
A. It
is an Association charted in the state of New York, and the International Bible
Students Association is charted by the –
Q. No,
no, no, describe the People’s Pulpit Association.
Q. It
is an Association charted by the state of New York, what for?
A. Some
religious – knowledge of God and the Scriptures to all –
Q. How
many belong to that?
A. About
forty.
Q. Forty
people?
A. Forty
ministers.
Q. Now
these are preachers and give all their time, are these the preachers?
A. Those
are the preachers.
Q. Do
they pay the expenses of the “Bethel”?
A. The
preachers do not.
Q. Who
does?
A. The
Association.
Q. Forty
in the Association?
A. Backed
by the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society.
Q. Where
do they get the money?
A. The
Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society provides the money.
Q. What
is it now, the Peoples Pulpit Association now and has forty members in it?
A. Approximately.
Q. Do
they all live in the “Bethel”?
A. That’s
their home.
Q. What
are the other sixty or seventy that live there?
A. Well,
they are assistants in various ways, stenographers, helpers in the office.
Q. Wives
and children?
A. Some
of them have wives and children of those preachers.
Q. Are
the preachers men and women?
A. No,
sir, no women preachers.
Q. All
men?
A. Yes.
Q. Now
they get their money from the Watch Tower?
A. They
get their money from the Peoples Pulpit Association.
Q. Yes
because Peoples Pulpit Association get their money from the Watch Tower?
A. Yes.
Q. And
the Watch Tower gets it from –
A. Where
you choose to get it.
Q. From
the public?
A. Yes.
Q. Now
is there any other Association?
A. International
Bible Students Association.
Q. That
is part of the same order?
A. Yes.
Q. Do
they get any money?
A. They
get all from the Watch Tower. The Watch Tower is the parent organization.
Q. Could
they get any money?
A. There
are a hundred thousand people, sometimes, for instance. If the Bible Students
in a certain place feel that they want to do some work and have not sufficient
money to carry it on themselves, the Society will back them up and furnish part
of the money.
Q. Now
is there any other Society?
A. That’s
three.
Q. We
have got the Watch Tower, the Students and the Bible?
A. And
the Peoples Pulpit, one in Pennsylvania, one in Great Britain, one in New York.
The reason for these three – there are certain limitations. By the state law
the Watch Tower cannot operate in New York State, the same in New Jersey. We
need, therefore, to have these others as holding Companies to carry on the
work.
Q. Well,
isn’t there another called the London and Brooklyn Tabernacles?
A. Brooklyn
Tabernacle.
Q. Is
that an Association?
A. No.
Q. Or
just a building?
A. Just
a building.
Q. Now
the jury rendered a verdict against you in the Brooklyn Eagle suit, didn’t
they?
A. Yes.
Q. And
you objected and commented on that in the Watch Tower, on the verdict?
A. Yes.
Q. In
the February number of the Watch Tower?
A. You
had better read it in the Watch Tower.
Q. I
have not got it here, have you got it?
A. No.
Q. Will
you care to put one in and produce it here?
A. Yes,
I am not ashamed of anything that is done.
Q. But
I will read this. Of course we will take it subject to correction. It will be
corrected in evidence if it does not agree with what is in the Watch Tower.
A. What
paper are you reading from?
Q. The
Brooklyn Eagle.
Q. I
am going to ask some questions, subject to correction. I will put in a copy. I
think it is allright.
(Mr Staunton here reads
article from the February number of the Watch Tower.)
Q. I
understand from you that all you sued for was because they said you were mixed
up in the sale of Miracle Wheat?
A. That’s
what the cartoon was.
Q. What
was the cartoon, what did it look like?
A. It
was a caricature representing me as selling Miracle Wheat.
(To be continued)
But futher issues not
extant.
